Cinc and Tor trade

[johnppd]

After much talking and reworking, talks with Phili and the yankees, this is a great offer I believe. It topped both the others and I'm happy to accept it. You guys are right the first two deals were not in my favor and I see that now. This one after lots of consideration definately is.

Cinc sends -

1998 first round pick, this years pick.

Tor sends -

Houston's 1998 first round pick
1999 first round pick
1999 second round pick
2000 first round pick
OF Vernon Wells
SP Lartroy Hawkins
SP Kelvin Escobar

Really happy I got this deal worked out finally. The deal from New York was close in all honesty just the calibre of the picks he was offering were slightly later I'm the rounds and that made we head towards this deal more.

Thanks for the deal Tonronto and to Phili and New York for the offers on talks about this pick.

[RoyalsGM]

Feb 14, 2013 0:50:19 GMT -5 johnppd said:

After much talking and reworking, talks with Phili and the yankees, this is a great offer I believe. It topped both the others and I'm happy to accept it. You guys are right the first two deals were not in my favor and I see that now. This one after lots of consideration definately is.

Cinc sends -

1998 first round pick, this years pick.

Tor sends -

Houston's 1998 first round pick
1999 first round pick
1999 second round pick
2000 first round pick
OF Vernon Wells
SP Lartroy Hawkins
SP Kelvin Escobar

Really happy I got this deal worked out finally. The deal from New York was close in all honesty just the calibre of the picks he was offering were slightly later I'm the rounds and that made we head towards this deal more.

Thanks for the deal Tonronto and to Phili and New York for the offers on talks about this pick.

I am lost here...

Toronto is right now the third worst team, yet they need to give up all of this to move to #1?

They could easily lose more than Cincy. ugh.

[Broph]

Feb 14, 2013 1:08:39 GMT -5 RoyalsGM said:

Feb 14, 2013 0:50:19 GMT -5 johnppd said:

After much talking and reworking, talks with Phili and the yankees, this is a great offer I believe. It topped both the others and I'm happy to accept it. You guys are right the first two deals were not in my favor and I see that now. This one after lots of consideration definately is.

Cinc sends -

1998 first round pick, this years pick.

Tor sends -

Houston's 1998 first round pick
1999 first round pick
1999 second round pick
2000 first round pick
OF Vernon Wells
SP Lartroy Hawkins
SP Kelvin Escobar

Really happy I got this deal worked out finally. The deal from New York was close in all honesty just the calibre of the picks he was offering were slightly later I'm the rounds and that made we head towards this deal more.

Thanks for the deal Tonronto and to Phili and New York for the offers on talks about this pick.

I am lost here...

Toronto is right now the third worst team, yet they need to give up all of this to move to #1?

They could easily lose more than Cincy. ugh.

their pick this year isnt in the deal

[Free Stutter!]

a potential rotation of CC, Hallady, Carpenter and Garcia.

disgusting

[johnppd]

Feb 14, 2013 1:15:43 GMT -5 Free Stutter! said:

a potential rotation of CC, Hallady, Carpenter and Garcia.

disgusting

I know you guys want to comment, but last time comments turned into rants and such. Would just ask if we could we keep it to a minimal, let people look over the deal of they must.

I love this deal. And to clarify Kansas city, like oakland said torontos pick from this year isn't in the deal, I believe he had already moved it.

[Broph]

would like to see the other offers, I just dont at all get why a tanking team is SO intent on dealing its most valuable asset

[RoyalsGM]

Feb 14, 2013 1:22:03 GMT -5 Broph said:

would like to see the other offers, I just dont at all get why a tanking team is SO intent on dealing its most valuable asset

this

[Ashes]

Yeah just really weird why someone would be dead set on NOT having CC

[johnppd]

Feb 14, 2013 1:22:03 GMT -5 Broph said:

would like to see the other offers, I just dont at all get why a tanking team is SO intent on dealing its most valuable asset

Phili offered me 3 later picks in this years draft, and a few specs.

New York offers me 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders and three specs.

If you want a better breakdown you can ask the teams themselves. It's as simple as next years draft is loaded and I'm looking at 2 picks in the top 5 now. Will be getting 2 5 stars next year among a lot else throughout the years.

[Broph]

you arent looking at two picks in the top 5 next year

[Broph]

You cant deal for a future first and just assume its going to be a top 5 pick, it makes no sense. you have to expect Toronto to make some kind of move, he doesnt have firsts the next two, and has a loaded system now

[Broph]

Id expect a big move now really, that way he gets headed on the right track so by next year his team is in the playoffs

[johnppd]

Feb 14, 2013 1:43:31 GMT -5 Broph said:

You cant deal for a future first and just assume its going to be a top 5 pick, it makes no sense. you have to expect Toronto to make some kind of move, he doesnt have firsts the next two, and has a loaded system now

It's the same as moving for any future picks you have to put a value on them and the way I look at it that's where I value it.

I talked to Erbes about this deal and explained the reasoning for it and justifications on stuff. I dont find the need to explain a trade I'm making to a random gm in this league and I'm somewhat sick of this already.

His team will not be 100% ready next year thus he's looking at another season where he will lose games to Boston newyork and Baltimore and most likely detroit too. Thus he will have a poor record. Rollins wont be ready for next year and that's a huge part of his infield missing. Halliday and carpenter are still not going to be dominant next year and his relievers are far from ready to make the jump to the majors or to compete with the ones he has in the majors right now. He has massive holes at the catcher position that he would have to fill as well.

Once again I don't know why I'm explaining myself to the "Oakland athletics gm" but whatever. I asked to attempt to keep this thread clean, of you have major issues with this trade as in if you think it's a "rape" then talk to Erbes please about it. Because this is by far weighted in my favor.

[Broph]

I dont get why you are so intent on trading the prospect thats gonna be the best prospect right off the bat, for a bunch of unknowns, thats the goal...you can say, next year I have two top 5 picks, but, really, instead you would have a top 5 pick this year (CC), and a Top 5 pick next year (your own as well), so really what you are saying is moot there, CC in this draft is better than any pick that could possibly be made next year at 5 or wherever Toronto is picking in the long run, and its even worse if he does end up picking in the teens. Its not an awful trade, much better than the two complete rape jobs, but really you still havent given any great reasons for being so intent on dealing a star pitcher and your most valuable asset by far

[RoyalsGM]

Feb 14, 2013 1:52:17 GMT -5 Broph said:

I dont get why you are so intent on trading the prospect thats gonna be the best prospect right off the bat, for a bunch of unknowns, thats the goal...you can say, next year I have two top 5 picks, but, really, instead you would have a top 5 pick this year (CC), and a Top 5 pick next year (your own as well), so really what you are saying is moot there, CC in this draft is better than any pick that could possibly be made next year at 5 or wherever Toronto is picking in the long run, and its even worse if he does end up picking in the teens. Its not an awful trade, much better than the two complete rape jobs, but really you still havent given any great reasons for being so intent on dealing a star pitcher and your most valuable asset by far

It's called DILUTING talent

[johnppd]

Just going to stop responding to these messages. Go look at next years draft class and maybe you will realize what I'm getting back here. Yes I lose cc but I gain a lot of players and what will be two sick players next year.

Thank you for your input though. It's not needed but it's fine.

Have a goodnight everyone.

[Ashes]

Very mature.

[danchevy]

I agree to the deal, thankyou to Cinc for the 2nd rework.

All im gonna post in this thread, dont need to jump in and fight with anyone, what im giving up speaks for itself if you actually consider what next years draft class will look like and such.

Thankyou again cinc, wish you the best of luck.

[danchevy]

I agree to the deal, thankyou to Cinc for the 2nd rework.

All im gonna post in this thread, dont need to jump in and fight with anyone, what im giving up speaks for itself if you actually consider what next years draft class will look like and such.

Thankyou again cinc, wish you the best of luck.

[bigbuhner]

You know what is immature? Telling people they are immature.

I for one would NEVER give up what Toronto is for one player. This is more than fair. If Cincy wants to trade his top pick, that is his choice. It is his club, he can trade who he wants. We don't need to understand what he wants to do with the club, nor do we need to ask him for a reply.

I offered up something close to what Cincy said, we had many talks, but only concrete offer was deal we made. I said I would move him Seattle picks this and next, plus Twins pick, plus my own, and perhaps a spec or two depending on the specs. That's 4 first rounders and a few specs for one guy.

Everybody says that late first rounders with one or maybe two bumps via money can be solid top ten dudes possibly. Well, let's keep in mind that a #1 overall pick can easily crap out and need to be rebuilt as well.

This trade is more than fair. Bottom line.

[Erbes]

It's a fair deal. I just don't see the urgency to trade a #1 pick.

My offer was...
1998 NYY 1st rounder
1999 NYY 2nd rounder
2000 NYY 1st rounder
2000 NYY 2nd rounder
Damian Moss
Chris Cumberland
Marcus Giles
Tony Armas

Felt like Moss was more valuable than anything Toronto was giving up. I never got a counter, just an explanation why Toronto's offer was better. Oh well. Live and learn.

[Erbes]

Look at this way... He traded the #1 prospect in the game for a bunch of mediocre prospects, of which none are in the top 100. Jinkies!

But it is much more fair.

[Broph]

Feb 14, 2013 9:01:24 GMT -5 Erbes said:

Look at this way... He traded the #1 prospect in the game for a bunch of mediocre prospects, of which none are in the top 100. Jinkies!

But it is much more fair.

clearly he traded him for the three firsts

[Broph]

pick wont be number one if I have my way

[Erbes]

Feb 14, 2013 1:48:20 GMT -5 johnppd said:

Feb 14, 2013 1:43:31 GMT -5 Broph said:

You cant deal for a future first and just assume its going to be a top 5 pick, it makes no sense. you have to expect Toronto to make some kind of move, he doesnt have firsts the next two, and has a loaded system now

It's the same as moving for any future picks you have to put a value on them and the way I look at it that's where I value it.

I talked to Erbes about this deal and explained the reasoning for it and justifications on stuff. I dont find the need to explain a trade I'm making to a random gm in this league and I'm somewhat sick of this already.

His team will not be 100% ready next year thus he's looking at another season where he will lose games to Boston newyork and Baltimore and most likely detroit too. Thus he will have a poor record. Rollins wont be ready for next year and that's a huge part of his infield missing. Halliday and carpenter are still not going to be dominant next year and his relievers are far from ready to make the jump to the majors or to compete with the ones he has in the majors right now. He has massive holes at the catcher position that he would have to fill as well.

Once again I don't know why I'm explaining myself to the "Oakland athletics gm" but whatever. I asked to attempt to keep this thread clean, of you have major issues with this trade as in if you think it's a "rape" then talk to Erbes please about it. Because this is by far weighted in my favor.

This is assuming he makes no other trades and signs no other free agents. That's a terrible assumption. If I were him I'd flip all those prospects into big leaguers and then sign a ton of free agents with the mountain of cash he's sitting on. Assuming makes an ass out you and me.